1 (edited by unsigned char* 2016-12-16 16:40:55)

Topic: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

A lot of years... only few security updates.... Is teeworlds dead? Is sad see how the community works... devs works in own software and not put anything to official branch... is a problem of the community? is a problem with the staff?? is a problem only for me?

No "official dev" comments about strategy or planning.... no discussions... only IRC channel that isn't the best channel for discussions... IRC is for realtime chat... hmm

2

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

When there will be no players, we will bury it, but something tells me it's not before long. Don't bury things alive, it's not cool.

Not Luck, Just Magic.

3

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

ofc! not is my intention 'kill' teewolds... only try to understand why developing process is so slow... why devs prefer make their own mods with cool features instead try to put them into teeworlds... or try improve teeworlds itself.

Perhaps teeworlds is finished and not need more developing process... ?¿??? Perhaps only are 3 devs and don't have 1 hour at month to improve teeworlds? Perhaps teeworlds doesn't need 'cool' features? who decide it and why? kiss for features or for code?

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Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

It definitely doesn't look good. It hasn't in years. There is no leadership, no direction from the official side. In fact there isn't even any leader. There's Oy, designated as maintiner, but that's about it; and even he is hardly around. And, of course, Dune and Heinrich are taking care of the forum. To get Teeworlds back on track, someone would have to take initiative and lead the project. And I'll tell you, it won't be me. I could imagine it to be Oy or Heinrich, but that's up to them; it'd definitely require some investment of time (planning of new releases and improvements toattract players again; more high quality content on the forum also wouldn't hurt). But that won't happen on its own…

Sorry for the pessimistic outlook, but that's how it looks like to me.

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Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

Yep... bad news... hmm and why you not? xD but i trust in Heinrich... Oy do good stuff but never have time :B

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Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

Software development is hard work.
Contributing to an existing code base is even more difficult.
1h per month won't get anything done.

If its still not clear to you, go and try to add features...

Developper of teeworlds-stats.info

7 (edited by unsigned char* 2016-12-15 18:51:26)

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

I know.. i work in other open communities like ODOO/OCA ... if you see how these community works... is in other level. Ofc is a community where are companies involved... but you can see the work of the voluntaries mantainers.

I have PR's not approved for years.... (https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/pull/1103) ANY comment from mantainers...
I have issues openned without any comment....

I tried it...


Need a roadmap... something like votes systems to promote PR's... wiki's... etc.. etc... and some guys that organize all... involve the comminity in the development and less dependent on a central figure... is my opinion.,, perhaps i'm wrong.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm currently updating documentation markdowns ... and i found this: https://github.com/teeworlds/documentat … nityweb.md

Sounds great! tongue

8

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

unsigned char* wrote:

I know.. i work in other open communities like ODOO/OCA ...

I work as a doctor and I declare teeworlds dead.

Just kidding, however I agree, it really is pretty frustrating for community creators to produce new content.

Real programmers don't comment their code - it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand.
Proudly verkeckt since 2010.

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Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

ODOO/OCA is a community of developers.. not doctors... i know that is a very bad comparation... but i only like tell with this that organization can be improved a lot...

Does anyone know who the mantainers are? What is the process for accept a PR? What is the process for decline a PR? Some stuff that you can see in "bigger" communities.. and it's free to implement here...

I have the impression that you have taken this as an attack ... when I only try to find solutions ... to discuss a little about the development fuck.

10

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

We heavily need more people to have the rights to approve pull requests on github.
As I can see there are a lot of capable developers in this community and a lot of people who are willing to keep this game alive and try to participate in improving it.
I suggest at least adding a few more people( Heinrich and Dune, I'd love to have unsigned char* as well in that development, because he is full of constructive ideas) who're actively developing this game to be added to the "admin" list on github.

We need a new forum sub-forum called Pull-Requests with lots of community polls going on, where the community can take part in promoting and convincing the admins to pull those requests.
I would suggest people, who are waiting for their github PRs to be approved on github, to do some promotion work in that sub-forum (Pull Requests) and explain what that pull request introduces, what features, what improvements and whatever else, which could be interesting for players/mappers/ server hosters.

Teeworlds[ friends ] clan
Some YouTube Stuff about Teeworlds

11

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

I'm not well placed to talk about this because I'm currently working on an alternative version. However, I've to say that the current state of TeeWorlds is the cause of the creation of TeeUniverse. I don't want to spend time on a code if it will be just stay 2 years as a PR, or rejected with just a one word comment.

Just one example: I've spend days to create an acceptable internationalization system for TeeWorlds-like programs. Even if my code is not perfect and not fully compatible with TeeWorlds, I've got many knowledge concerning this stuff, what are the options, the limitation of each libraries, ... I've posted a (long) issue on GitHub, thinking that maybe I could spend some time to make it compatible and create a true PR. It was just closed for duplication. I mean, maybe my message was a bit pretentious, or maybe I'm wrong somewhere, but it's very frustrating. "I close this issue because it doesn't use the appropriate format and is a duplicate for some of it's part with other issues. But feel free to discuss this on IRC or in the official forum, or to create a PR so we cant start to work on it" would be better at least sad There is a true problem of communication.

I agree that a subforum would be appreciated. That way we could discuss on how to improve the main code or a specific PR, and it will gives more visibility to this process. The devs could also create some sort of task list for main points to do.

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Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

"work in progress" / WIP should be a teeworlds meme.

Teeworlds[ friends ] clan
Some YouTube Stuff about Teeworlds

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Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

jxsl13 wrote:

We heavily need more people to have the rights to approve pull requests on github.

I cannot stress this enough. As much as we need fresh blood of players, we need a fresh change of devs. Please, let there be some talk with the DDNet devs.

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Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

I am also frustrated by the current development situation.

I think it would be good if we could add at least one active person other than Oy to the developers. I would like to try this if I was allowed to, but I'd be equally happy to have any other active person in that role. That person should be sufficiently reachable; this is currently a big problem we have in Teeworlds development: No active development discussion happening, developers rarely meet on IRC etc.

I think we immediately need to improve the experience for new developers, as it is currently very hard to get a working Teeworlds build out of the source code IMO. When I compiled the release artifacts for the latest release, I had problems on both OS X and Windows, where the build only worked after applying a few tricks that someone new to Teeworlds development probably wouldn't think of. This hurts the community, as many potential developers might go away. Another thing that we need to improve on is response time on pull requests. When I opened an easy pull request on some repository on GitHub and it was responded to within one day, I was definitely happy about that. Compare that to pull requests that have been lying dormant for over three years on the Teeworlds repository, like #1086, essentially without response from an official developer.

Thanks for creating this topic, unsigned char *, I have also thought about creating one for a long time. Btw, I think this is still the same situation as back when this topic was last discussed: Landil's post, Sushi's post. And it's been five (!) years since then.

15 (edited by jxsl13 2016-12-17 13:05:44)

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

We need an angry mob with torches and pitchforks! Viva la revolición big_smile!


Participate: https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/issues/1489

Teeworlds[ friends ] clan
Some YouTube Stuff about Teeworlds

16

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

That was needlessly angry.

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Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

Otherwiese nothing will change
like already 5 years ago.

Teeworlds[ friends ] clan
Some YouTube Stuff about Teeworlds

18

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

I agree with heinrich. It's not so much about asking to step down, but really about finding an alternative. Oy is doing a good job in my opinion, but his activity is very sparse (understandably).

Not Luck, Just Magic.

19

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

Let's say not step down, but to go more into background and let active developers take the rudder.

Teeworlds[ friends ] clan
Some YouTube Stuff about Teeworlds

20

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

Needlessly aggressive, yes, but maybe to get the message across.

But anyway, forks can be made by anyone, the thing isn't that we need admin access to the repo, the thing is that we (junior devs tongue compared to these dinosaurs) need to unite. Several mods were made because of this issue, basically, and most of them were abandoned too. Consider teeuniverse as a starting point. Not necessarily every decision has to be made to be *mod friendly!!11!* and I'm sure there will be some hard-liner but that's OK. But it isn't good if 3 people try to do it but everyone on their own.

This is also a message to you @necropotame (gosh I hate it that you can't mention tongue). Please be a bit more open to suggestions that are less mod friendly and to all of you, people, please be a bit more open to mod friendliness tongue

Having troubles finding servers in the serverlist? Go to Pastebin (its a referer cause there is daily a new pastebin) and add the lines to your settings.cfg (in %APPDATA%\teeworlds). Then open teeworlds and go to the favorites tab. (Note however, standard teeworlds client can only show 256 favorites, use ddnet instead)

21 (edited by necropotame 2016-12-17 14:55:50)

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

I agree too. The discussion is about how to improve the situation, not how to throw away the current team. I'm not against Oy, I just suggested that the communication should be improved. Same for the team itself: we suggest to add someone in addition of Oy to help him to handle all the work to do.

Edit: this message was written without reading the two last ones

22 (edited by jxsl13 2016-12-17 15:17:45)

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

I agree with Schertspitze, this game lives mostly because of the many mods, that exist, that's why it has to be a bit more mod friendly (Y).

The main problem is just that nobody, who is capable of reviewing pull requests has the time to review them. That's why they need new people there as admins.

Edit: A great help would be m!nus if he added a new subforum for pull requests smile

Teeworlds[ friends ] clan
Some YouTube Stuff about Teeworlds

23

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

Why a subforum for PRs? Can't those be discussed on Github itself?

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Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

Happy to see that are people interested in keep Teeworlds alive...

Stuff that can be good:

1. Create two work groups
   - Mantainers: Write access
   - Collaborators (by operating system): Promote PR's, Run Tests

2. Create a list with mantainers and collaborators (in all repos of Teeworlds).

3. Create a collaboration guide...
   - Code style
   - PR style
   - General rules (features not wanted, system used for PR management, ...)

4. Use forum for dev discussions (Is this feature necessary? Need update this library? etc.. questions and promote new collaborators)

--------------------------------

First of all is consolidate a work group.... second write the general rules (collaboration guide)... At this point the discussions could be channeled to start work.

P.S: Thx for mention me, but others have better skills and can use best the english tongue I have time for be an "collaborator" if like.. and this goes forward smile

25

Re: Is the development of teeworlds slowed down?

At this point, I would like to hear the point of view of Oy about all of this. Just because it's important to know the arguments of everyone. Maybe it's normal that the game use a slow development to make sure that everything is fine, maybe he can't trust enough what that game will be if we open the doors of the features. I really would like to have some arguments, even if I don't agree with them smile