101

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

okey i did it i go in src/engine/client an open ec_client_c and write #include <time.h>

than i compile and it works smile

102

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

Huh, what's that amazing in Z client for a non-rus user ?
Look at Teecomp...

Not Luck, Just Magic.

103

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

Dune wrote:

Huh, what's that amazing in Z client for a non-rus user ?
Look at Teecomp...

scripting functions and auto-reconnect. That's all.

Support Staff - ESL.eu Teeworlds Admin

104

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

Pack 4 will include lua scripting wink

105

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

vry nice thanx

Please do not advertise non-Teeworlds related websites. // ~{MS}~ Azon

106

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

Because Z-Team Pack is now banned by Magnet, discussion about version 4 will be at Z-Team site after releasing it (i mean, Z-Pack 4). There will be only news and link to discussion page.

107

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

I think Magnet was totally right about removing the links to this mod, because it offers abusive features which give a player significant advantage/s over players with vanilla clients.

But I also think that this mod contains some useful features which could be merged into the official release, so in my opinion if you want to help develop this game why dont you join irc and talk with the devs about it. I'm sure you could agree on some features which could be added after the refactoring and if your code is clean it will be merged. That way you could make the game better instead of dividing the community between many client mods. In your topic about the upcoming features this was already said by a developer - void, so just do it. If you have already done it, then keep going.

Your work is appreciated and your mod is nice.
???? ????? ? ?????? // tons of love for Russia

We will meet again when the flowers spread their glorious scent of victory and the birds sing us the melody of justice...

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Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

torch wrote:

But I also think that this mod contains some useful features which could be merged into the official release, so in my opinion if you want to help develop this game why dont you join irc and talk with the devs about it. I'm sure you could agree on some features which could be added after the refactoring and if your code is clean it will be merged. That way you could make the game better instead of dividing the community between many client mods. In your topic about the upcoming features this was already said by a developer - void, so just do it. If you have already done it, then keep going.

The discussion took place already and went nowhere. However, I have discussed it with matricks and we're totally open on improving the official client with fair features (fair in terms of resource usage and without providing any competitive advantage). As I underlined earlier, the official client draws the line of "fairness" and if we provide more features some alternative clients will be OK.

The current client refactoring will soon be ready (after some regression tests), then we will be open to add some features and we welcome community programmers to help us. Even though I would enjoy a more mature behavior and understanding when it comes to our legitimate concerns to prevent unfair features. Our moderation ability stops here at the official forums but it does not change the fact that players using some alternative clients should reconsider it (and we will make sure to make the official client more appealing to power-users).

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Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

Excuse me, but i have some answer. I think that it's limitation of players' freedom of choice. Also, i cannot understand why zoom in spectator mode is cheating (because nobody can do it in vanilla client without changing source code? But it's funny... Nobody can cut demos in vanilla client, but i don't heard something against it from you. So where's cheating and where's not?) and why auto-join is same as DOS-attack (even one request per second cannot fill all server bandwidth and so it cannot make server down).
About "fair features". If you want to play "non-fair" teeworlds, then remove all animations, sounds, textures, anything! It will be not teeworlds, but mega-hit "blue rhombus vs red pentagrams" or something like it. Games are "fair" by define.
Also i cannot understand, why teeworlds need refactoring. But okay, let it be, i'm not against it.
What about helping, i disapponted in it, especially after our last talk. Nobody likes when somebody name him "smart ass" and somebody else shout you (and just you!) "Stop trolling! Shut up!" Do you think, is it good behavior for moderators? I just wanted to find out what's what! For example, i asked about scripts. First answer was something about "No. It's cheating". After a some time, i see: "You could very well provide a limited access with scripting". Later: "Well I have nothing against lua, as long as you don't provide internal variables". And some time later i know that i can provide some internal variables. So what i can do, and what i cannot? (It was funny when we're speaking about team colored projectiles, yea? Why i must know game better than official developers? Except Matricks, of course...)
I want to know described limitations of mode making, that will be approved by all official developers, with reasons why it's prohibited, and these limitations will be opened for common discussion. I think, it will be fairly. So what?

P. S. Can i get answer, why only my mod was banned? smile

110

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

I personally don't use any of the improved-modified clients, but if you plan to restrict use of this one then it would be fair to restrict use of other alternative clients. They all provide some sort of advantage in comparison to official release.

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Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

kaddy wrote:

Excuse me, but i have some answer. I think that it's limitation of players' freedom of choice. Also, i cannot understand why zoom in spectator mode is cheating (because nobody can do it in vanilla client without changing source code? But it's funny... Nobody can cut demos in vanilla client, but i don't heard something against it from you. So where's cheating and where's not?) and why auto-join is same as DOS-attack (even one request per second cannot fill all server bandwidth and so it cannot make server down).
About "fair features". If you want to play "non-fair" teeworlds, then remove all animations, sounds, textures, anything! It will be not teeworlds, but mega-hit "blue rhombus vs red pentagrams" or something like it. Games are "fair" by define.
Also i cannot understand, why teeworlds need refactoring. But okay, let it be, i'm not against it.
What about helping, i disapponted in it, especially after our last talk. Nobody likes when somebody name him "smart ass" and somebody else shout you (and just you!) "Stop trolling! Shut up!" Do you think, is it good behavior for moderators? I just wanted to find out what's what! For example, i asked about scripts. First answer was something about "No. It's cheating". After a some time, i see: "You could very well provide a limited access with scripting". Later: "Well I have nothing against lua, as long as you don't provide internal variables". And some time later i know that i can provide some internal variables. So what i can do, and what i cannot? (It was funny when we're speaking about team colored projectiles, yea? Why i must know game better than official developers? Except Matricks, of course...)
I want to know described limitations of mode making, that will be approved by all official developers, with reasons why it's prohibited, and these limitations will be opened for common discussion. I think, it will be fairly. So what?

P. S. Can i get answer, why only my mod was banned? smile

Rather lengthy message for little contents but maybe it's only due to your limited understanding of English. About zooming, I have repeated that the problem was with in-game PLAYERs zoom and not spec zoom. I have repeated it in IRC. Your lack of will to understand seems to be malicious from my side, but maybe it's indeed only related to limited understanding.

I have also made clear what constitutes illegitimate client behavior in a ruleset composed of 2 single and simple rules, which I have repeated a few times to you on IRC (after posting it here) and you continue to refuse to understand it. You also clearly misunderstood what I told you because at no point I was rude or called you a "smart ass" ; I was just tired of endlessly repeating the same and decided to leave a useless conversation because of the waste of time.

I also made clear what was OK with scripting and what was not. Rajh was here too and was complementing my point. About team colored projectiles, again, maybe you think you know TW better than other devs, you shouldn't laugh at someone when you're the one who's wrong smile just saying.

About talking about the conditions of what is legitimate / what is not, surely we could have another open discussion but it has to be open from your side too. If you refuse to understand any argument we provide we won't go anywhere. So far the rules have been easy:

#1: No useless resource consumption / automated input for stuff that is not automatic in the official client
#2: No gameplay-related features that aren't provided by the official client

REASON: We have to set a line somewhere between legit and non-legit. The only line that can be drawn is what the official client provides because it's the game as it is intended.

Finally, Z-Pack wasn't the only client with links removed. All clients that I know of that have features that don't correspond to the ruleset I posted earlier had their links removed.


Psychonaut wrote:

I personally don't use any of the improved-modified clients, but if you plan to restrict use of this one then it would be fair to restrict use of other alternative clients. They all provide some sort of advantage in comparison to official release.

Addressed earlier. This is not specific to Z-Pack nor to modded clients in general. It's specific to clients that have a feature that is illegitimate (here: auto reconnect / auto server join. Automatic input for server join falls explicitly into rule #1 "do not abuse server resources". It's a feature that only make afk people join servers and it's incredibly rude. It also triggers useless and *UNATTENDED* (that's the main point) server polling. We've been over this already and it's not MY crazy rule, it's been discussed).

PS: I'm fairly drunk, so I hope this message goes smooth.

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Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

Also i cannot understand, why teeworlds need refactoring

Do you only know what is the refactor branch's aim ?
This is first a cleaning code branch :
variable names are changed, some are deleted, warning a corrected, etc.

So stop criticizing things you don't know just because Magnet said it and you don't like him.

|ZPote| buffer[]'s posterous

113

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

Here we are not speaking about cleaning, but about the modifications that could see the client.
So what are you meaning ? That this "teeworlds refactoring" will only be code-side ? mostly ?

Not Luck, Just Magic.

114

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

Magnet, why Auto-reconnect is cheating, why only Z-team CL Mod was banned, and why my favorite CL Mod (Z-team) was banned at all :?

115 (edited by HipHopBlond 2009-12-21 21:23:31)

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

Dune wrote:

Huh, what's that amazing in Z client for a non-rus user ?
Look at Teecomp...

Teecomp has a lots of settings yes, but when you really start looking at them you realize that most of them are actually useless...

We don't heed 1000 useless options but some features that are not provided by the official client, excuse me if I'm wrong but I thought that this was the reason we use all those client mods and not the Original game?

116

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

But needed features are different for each people.
And by the way, most of Z-Team features are useless too.

So there is three solutions :
- You're a programmer, and you code your client.
- You download a client with many features, and enable only needed ones.
- You ask on the forum for what you would like to have.

|ZPote| buffer[]'s posterous

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Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

buffer wrote:

And by the way, most of Z-Team features are useless too.

buffer wrote:

But needed features are different for each people.

118

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

Kottizen wrote:
buffer wrote:

And by the way, most of Z-Team features are useless too.

You're right ^^.
My meaning was : In my opinion, most of Z-Team's client features are useless.

|ZPote| buffer[]'s posterous

119

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

Maybe some features are useless for you, but not for another one wink

Magnet, i have question big_smile There you're showing that you're playing TeeComp: http://qi.m0g.net/forums/viewtopic.php?id=89 How it related with your words that it will be good if all players will use official version only? Do you think that all TeeComp features are not "cheating" or "abusing" (such as auto demo recording that fill your disk space)?

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Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

When it fills up your hard drive, it only effects you, the unwanted features are those that put load on servers. What you do with your own computer is totally up to you.

Official Teeworlds map developer and community moderator
Administrator for the Teeworlds community Teesites

121

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

kaddy wrote:

Maybe some features are useless for you, but not for another one wink

Magnet, i have question big_smile There you're showing that you're playing TeeComp: http://qi.m0g.net/forums/viewtopic.php?id=89 How it related with your words that it will be good if all players will use official version only? Do you think that all TeeComp features are not "cheating" or "abusing" (such as auto demo recording that fill your disk space)?

Such a kindergarden . Don´t act like a child just accept the setted rules and provide client mods that are not acting against this

If Magnet intends to fill his harddrive space with his demos/screens who cares it doesn´t affect you?
If someone is acting funny and changes his skin like all 5 seconds it is totally annoying and disturbting the gameplay.
If like 100 people want a slot while browsing in the internet and try to join every it is server flooding -> lag for players
If someone auto joins the server while he is afk he is keeping a slot which could be used by a player who is in front of his screen and is able to play.
less active players on the server

122

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

kaddy wrote:

Do you think that all TeeComp features are not "cheating" or "abusing" (such as auto demo recording that fill your disk space)?

I really wonder how you manage to write any piece of working code considering your flawed understanding of logic. Please tell me one feature of TeeComp that goes against the ruleset I described earlier.

For the record look at the date I made the post and the object of the post before assuming I use TeeComp.

It really seems to me you're just a troll and I invite you to stop bothering me with the same fluff over and over again until you finally try to understand the rules that apply to alternative clients. It has been explained very well by others since too (namely torch, Chilly and Marik) so you should start asking yourself why you can't understand two simple rules.

123 (edited by kaddy 2009-12-28 16:42:33)

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

Magnet wrote:

#1: No useless resource consumption / automated input for stuff that is not automatic in the official client
#2: No gameplay-related features that aren't provided by the official client

Who will decide what is useless resource consumption, automated input or non-gameplay-related features?

Magnet wrote:

Please tell me one feature of TeeComp that goes against the ruleset I described earlier.

Okay, easily:
1. Extended stat board and shadows under nameplates can be called "useless resource consumption"
2. Auto demo record and screenshots can be called "automated input for stuff that is not automatic in the official client"
3. HUD colors matching Tees' ones can be called "non-gameplay-related feature that is not provided by the official client"
I don't want to say "ban this too!" (i don't really think that it's "cheating"), i want to say "all is relative". One feature will be useless, abusing or cheating for one, but will be non-cheating and useful for another one.

Magnet wrote:

For the record look at the date I made the post and the object of the post before assuming I use TeeComp.

It doesn't matter. Features that i listed above were in TeeComp at that time.

Marik16 wrote:

Such a kindergarden . Don´t act like a child just accept the setted rules and provide client mods that are not acting against this

Magnet wrote:

It really seems to me you're just a troll and I invite you to stop bothering me with the same fluff over and over again until you finally try to understand the rules that apply to alternative clients. It has been explained very well by others since too (namely torch, Chilly and Marik) so you should start asking yourself why you can't understand two simple rules.

At the first, i want to see described, detailed rules, not this "make it and i'll select what is good and what is bad".
At the second... "Kindergarden", "troll"... Marik, Magnet, was it kindergarden or trolling?

#teeworlds-dev@irc.quakenet.org wrote:

[00:44] <magnet> wixur / Derk want to be a smart ass too? Server crasher?

Before this i just asked first time Magnet and Rajh about modmaking rules (so you mean that i'm exactly "smart ass"). I don't like when anybody try to show himself clever and humiliate me for nothing.
http://teeworlds.com/trac/teeworlds/sea … mp;wiki=on
Magnet, can you make something really useful or you can only ban and shout?

I'll continue discussion only when you write detailed rules or unban mods. That's all.

124 (edited by Slayer *gV* 2009-12-29 00:46:43)

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

on the one hand its really babyish, kaddy. You try to discuss but you dont know really what you are saying?

1. Extended stat board and shadows under nameplates can be called "useless resource consumption"

Auto reconnecting is useless resource consumption, because you reconnect, and use resources of the server, automatically, what isnt needed.

2. Auto demo record and screenshots can be called "automated input for stuff that is not automatic in the official client"

Yes if you want to call it like that, but who cares? You dont get any advantage against your opponents.


but on the other hand im asking myself either why magnet is called a "Developer", as i cant follow what he did. When i take a look into the timeline the only developer are oy, lordskelethom and matricks? :-/

125

Re: [MOD] Teeworlds Z-Team Pack beta

SO, why can't you just remove autorejoin and release the client again? It's a great modification. I could say autorejoin is a little cheating, I don't know how it works, but if you get banned you can just spam the server again and again(or full server) until you join, using the server resources.