1 (edited by skate 2011-04-17 22:07:15)

Topic: Selfkilling

Recently I encountered a player who frequently used "kill" command to selfkill himself, so he can quickly spawn back in base to help defend flag, or when he was carrying flag low on health, he would suicide and pick it up again with 10hp back. And then I saw this ticket on github by Dune and started to think about it. Is this a common practice in high level games? I have nothing against killing yourself with grenade but using this command looks to me kinda cheesey. I know it is useful for race, but I always considered using it in vanilla kinda as cheating. It would be stupid if you could suicide at any time because it reduces importance of map control and proper positioning of yourself. With such a short respawn time that teeworlds has it works like a magical "oh shit i have to def" button.
Sooo what do you guys thing about it?

2

Re: Selfkilling

It is pretty gay that some players frequently use that as a normal strategy. I personally don't do it because a lot can happen in the amount of time I suicide and then scramble back to the flag. But I have to admit, I'm guilty of self-killing to quickly get back to the base and defend. Although, I haven't done that in months.

But as a prevention method, I say self-kills should decline your score by more than -1. Perhaps, -3? It wouldn't stop everyone but only those who care about their dignity and self-image. tongue

Give others the respect you wish to be respected with. In the mean time, enjoy the website!

3

Re: Selfkilling

I'm personnaly never using the selfkill, as it's always better to turn back to your base. When selfkilling, you loose all your ammo, and a lot of potential to kill your flagger. I prefer to collect ammo and regen, and then try to intercept it.
For this reason, I'm not considering this as a cheat; but as the choice is given to the Teeworlds players, there should be one way for them to do it without using f1 hacks.

Not Luck, Just Magic.

4

Re: Selfkilling

I kill often myself with grenade launcher or death tiles. I dont think its a cheat, but tactics, it it doesnt make any sense to waste 1 minute to pick up 9 health if you can respawn with 10.
And i think it shouldnt be changed, as the gameplay gets faster with it oO


skate wrote:

Is this a common practice in high level games?

Yes, but not with the command.

5

Re: Selfkilling

killing yourself with the kill command is stupid because you have to wait 3 sec until you respawn. In this time its much faster to kill yourself with grenades or collect new hearts/shilds.

uptee - a simple web interface for hosting and maintaining teeworlds servers
teerace - a website gathering results of trusted Race-mod servers providing global ranking and statistics
*gV* rox ^^

6

Re: Selfkilling

Sushi Tee wrote:

killing yourself with the kill command is stupid because you have to wait 3 sec until you respawn. In this time its much faster to kill yourself with grenades or collect new hearts/shilds.

when you kill yourself and press mouseclick "fire" you spawn in 0.5 secs? atleast thats what i keep getting,
and i totally agree with bee it's stupid! i use selfkilling only in race cuz it's usefull.

7

Re: Selfkilling

T2 wrote:
Sushi Tee wrote:

killing yourself with the kill command is stupid because you have to wait 3 sec until you respawn. In this time its much faster to kill yourself with grenades or collect new hearts/shilds.

when you kill yourself and press mouseclick "fire" you spawn in 0.5 secs? atleast thats what i keep getting,
and i totally agree with bee it's stupid! i use selfkilling only in race cuz it's usefull.

That doesn't work in pure gametypes. Only in race, as the respawn times is lowered there.

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8 (edited by skate 2011-04-18 17:14:36)

Re: Selfkilling

skate wrote:

I have nothing against killing yourself with grenade

Ppl really need to learn to read here... Of course I was talking about command as a kind of "cheat"(not really cheat since it is a part of game as it is right now).
Anyway good to know that others share my view. Still imo this command should be disabled on pure servers.
Or maybe just increase respawn time a bit more after using it so it will be never profitable.

9

Re: Selfkilling

Maybe there could be a command like "sv_allow_selfkills 1/0" and admins can decide whether they allow it or not.

burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.

10

Re: Selfkilling

well i dont think we should add a command like this, pls remember KISS.
the other reason is:

Sushi Tee wrote:

killing yourself with the kill command is stupid [...]

11

Re: Selfkilling

skate wrote:
skate wrote:

I have nothing against killing yourself with grenade

Ppl really need to learn to read here... Of course I was talking about command as a kind of "cheat"(not really cheat since it is a part of game as it is right now).
Anyway good to know that others share my view. Still imo this command should be disabled on pure servers.
Or maybe just increase respawn time a bit more after using it so it will be never profitable.

were u even reading the posts?
The time already is increased from 0.5 sec to 3 sec when using the kill command. 3 sec are really long in teeworlds wink

uptee - a simple web interface for hosting and maintaining teeworlds servers
teerace - a website gathering results of trusted Race-mod servers providing global ranking and statistics
*gV* rox ^^

12

Re: Selfkilling

Sushi Tee wrote:

were u even reading the posts?
The time already is increased from 0.5 sec to 3 sec when using the kill command. 3 sec are really long in teeworlds wink

And how increasing it further to say 5,6 seconds would be bad exactly? It seems to be agreed that this command should not be used as a playing technique and currently it can effectively be used as such (well not maybe on ctf2 which is the high level map, but majority of games are on ctf5 anyway, and there it can put to a good use).

13

Re: Selfkilling

skate wrote:
Sushi Tee wrote:

were u even reading the posts?
The time already is increased from 0.5 sec to 3 sec when using the kill command. 3 sec are really long in teeworlds wink

And how increasing it further to say 5,6 seconds would be bad exactly? It seems to be agreed that this command should not be used as a playing technique and currently it can effectively be used as such (well not maybe on ctf2 which is the high level map, but majority of games are on ctf5 anyway, and there it can put to a good use).

oO
Not on ctf2 but on ctf5?
Capture time on ctf2 is much longer than on ctf5.

14

Re: Selfkilling

heinrich5991 wrote:

Not on ctf2 but on ctf5?
Capture time on ctf2 is much longer than on ctf5.

Do you even play this game? There are plenty of places on ctf5 where you can leave the flag after killing yourself and easily pick it up even after 3 seconds, because of the size of the map and easiness of camping in some places. This is not the case on ctf2 which is smaller and there is much more going on. Anyway you have some point in ctf2 it could be also usable with good defense it should not be hard to suicide effectively in base, but on ctf2 that would be just stupid as Sushi said because in base you can just easily heal or pick up grenade and suicide with it. On ctf5 hearts are less concentrated in bases and with more ppl playing  there is bigger chance that somebody already took pickups.

15

Re: Selfkilling

skate wrote:

There are plenty of places on ctf5 where you can leave the flag after killing yourself and easily pick it up even after 3 seconds, because of the size of the map and easiness of camping in some places

ehm...no? tbh 3 seconds are much time on ctf2, ctf3, ctf4, ctf5 and ctf10000. And if you play a mid-/high leveled match there won't be ANY place you can leave a flag for 3 seconds alone. Where should they be? Down-mid? Down-top? Mid? Nope. Base Down? Base Top? Never. Base Up off-side? Toooooo risky (Easily spotted and the opponent player will be first there after your 3 seconds respawn delay OR will catch you full equipped.)

skate wrote:

Do you even play this game?

Yep, and you?


PS: If you dont trust us, join our gV ctf5 Server (oops, advertising wink)

16

Re: Selfkilling

Selfkilling is also very useful to give the flag to a partner, when being in danger. 3 seconds is really a decent penalty for this, and I think this is a part of gameplay and shouldn't be altered.

Not Luck, Just Magic.

17

Re: Selfkilling

Dune wrote:

Selfkilling is also very useful to give the flag to a partner, when being in danger. 3 seconds is really a decent penalty for this, and I think this is a part of gameplay and shouldn't be altered.

This, the difference is the fact that I believe it should be altered.
*snip* -  Do not be offensive (If you conclude from one or two persons' behaviour to the behaviour of a whole nation, learn to think. Racism, facism or whatever this stereotyping is called sucks and will result in a ban next time) // Landil

18

Re: Selfkilling

Dune wrote:

Selfkilling is also very useful to give the flag to a partner, when being in danger. 3 seconds is really a decent penalty for this, and I think this is a part of gameplay and shouldn't be altered.

I also use it to give the flag to someone else if I see that my teammates are getting impatient. Other times when I flee from somewhere I try to give it to a good player (I look up the scores) so that the flag will be safer and we may score.

Of course sometimes I give it by mistake to the opposing team. Once I gave it to someone who rocket-jumped away.

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