1 Topic by Magix (edited by Magix 2009-04-19 18:24:46)

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Topic: [INFO] All about Bots

Stating the obvious:
Using bots in Teeworlds is CHEATING. Using them will get you banned by most admins and tournaments/contests. Aimbots are a good vector for viruses as well. Long story short: don't use them.
(edit by Magnet).

Original message:

A few things I wanna say about this whole aim-bot issue going on here. I have noticed an increase in aimbot-related posts, and they are beginning to annoy me because usually are nothing but complaints or URL's on how to get one. Then people who could be spending their time developing 6.0 waste their time deleting the URLs and sending warnings. If I were a mod I would not mind doing this, but I know for a fact that the current mods have better things to do. So in an attempt to stop this increasing flow of useless posts, I am creating this topic to explain all about bots and some information that has remained hidden for a while. Knowledge is power, and I hope this knowledge will give everyone the power to stop making useless posts.

The first thing that needs to get cleared up is that aimbots exist. They do. So anybody who thinks otherwise is thinking wrong. However, there are a few different aimbots running around, some more noticable than others. Here is a list of the different aimbots:


Qwerty's Public Bot

The most commonly bot circulating around Teeworlds is made by "qwerty", who may or may not be the same qwerty from this forum, and his bot automatically tags the lettering [bot] in front of the player name. The source of this bot this not running around anywhere, so don't think somebody can remove it. If you see somebody with this tag, don't let them trick you by telling you that [bot] is their clan, cuz its not. It's a tag for a bot. Thank god for qwerty's anti-cheat bot.

Qwerty's Private Bot

However, qwerty did make another bot... without the tag. This was meant only for qwerty to test his alpha version, but the compiled version somehow got out, but is not spreading, mainly because the owners are pretending they don't have a bot, even though their score is 300 higher than mine on an instagib CTF game. However, this is slowly spreading.

Bot Bot

A bot made by a german hacker (name remains unknown), is a  .dll file, which is a bit complex to work around. Most noobs who want to use a bot won't even be able to figure out how to use this one. It involves using a greentea injecter. With the improper settings, this wont do anything to the game.

Super-Bot

A strong super-aim bot with perfect aim. What comes with this aim is running a few hundred extra processes at the same time in teeworlds, raising the botter's normal 70 ping to 200 every time a player is spotted. This renders this bot useless unless used on a LAN server or on one's own home-run server. This bot is rarely seen because it is very impractical to use.

Super-bot v2

A true bot. Actually works, without tags. Made by two coders, camin and warbleck. Properly aims, shoots, and fires. Source is not circulating around much, running only in a clan or two. Rarely seen, not to be worried about as much as qwerty's tagless bot.

iFreeze Bot

Once again, a true bot. Being sold by a regular gamer whose name I shall not release so that you don't go buy it, it is modded specifically for the Freeze mod. It is designed not to aim at ninjas of either team, making it ultra-powerful in the mod. The no-ninja can be disabled and this can be used as bot in any instagib game.

HookBot

Hookbots. These are the most potent threat to the Teeworlds. Only a few tees have these, and are insanely easy to spot. Amazingly, Magnet is not one of the people with the bot. These are probably the only true concern to the developers because they are bad for the vanilla game, the only one the devs really care about.

Now, this brings me to my main point. Nobody cares if you saw a bot or know how to get one. Instagib is a mod. Mods are not supported by the developers. They DON'T Care, so stop posting stuff like "OMG I SAW A BOT!!!". If you want to stop seeing these bots, stop playing Instagib, or develop a bot-detection mod. Such functions as part of the original game are a loong way of, if ever added. In real life, the saying goes "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all". On this forum, the saying goes "If you don't have anything argumentative (worth arguing for) to say, then don't say it". Don't reply to this unless you have something that adds to the discusion.

If you are wondering how I know all this, then let me put it simply. Google is the miracle of the web. I hope that my information has been an eye-opening, life changing experience for you. Now please stop the posts, and if you are a botter, remember this: every time you use a bot, somebody will throw a puppy of a tall building, so stop using bots.

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2 Reply by Azon

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

It's true that there's no need for more "I've seen bot, go to website X. These will only raise more attention and don't help to solve the problem at all.

What we shouldn't agree with is that this it something that we shouldn't care about because of the excuse that mods aren't supported and this is a mod only problem. "Mods aren't supported" means that the developers of Teeworlds don't have anything do with player created content and as such can't provide support for them. It doesn't mean that the game can ignore the problems that a majority of the player base experiences day in day out. What is too often forgotten is that Teeworlds is 60% mods, and the one reason why the forum hasn't been reduced to a platform for game support is the fact that the community continuous to develop interesting projects.

Therefor, this ever growing problem of aimbots does not specifically effect mods only. It's an inherent problem of Teeworlds which has the potential to be devastating for the game's reputation. It does more damage then just destroying the fun of the people in the server where bots are present. When the number of bots continuous to grow at the present rate it'll become impossible to ignore them, simply because one can't join a single server without facing this problem. As the numbers of bots increase the (human) player base will experience more and more tensions:
* new players will get a very negative impression of the game
* existing players will no longer find any enjoyment in playing the game
* professional players won't be distinguished from bots and therefor find more and more hostility

It's true that development doesn't possess the resources to tackle this problem by themselves. It will always be much easier to create the bots then it would be to combat them. The fact that Teeworlds is open source wouldn't make this task a possible one. What we do need to focus on though is raising awareness. If we ignore the problem, and let it get out of control this will damage exactly the two core principles that make Teeworlds superior to many, it's community and unique game experience.

This post therefor is an excellent example on how we can provide the public with information. It'll hopefully give them the needs to detect bots and possibly ban them from their servers. Some other first steps that would reduce the devastating effects of the problem could be to discontinue any attempts to make computer controlled bots, as these would only cause confusion among players. The most important solution for now would be to continue the discussion. Not as this post states in dozens of posts adding nothing new to the table, but with so many intelligent people we must be able to have a sensible conversation about the subject which will detect the main issue. And who knows, maybe in time, a way to solve it.

3 Reply by Magix

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

"New players will get a very negative impression of the game"

I completely disagree with this. Everyone knows that in every shooter game, there will be bots. Look at Counter-Strike. Is it less popular because there are bots everywhere? No. With the kick-vote on a moderately fair server, the botters are almost always kicked, especially when it is obvious they are using their bots. However, I do agree that we should still try to do something about this.

I have a few of the above mentioned bots, and will be posting pictures of them being enabled in the console, and demos of them in action.

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4 Reply by Azon (edited by Azon 2009-04-15 13:43:33)

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

There are two reasons why Counter-Strike doesn't get affected while Teeworlds probably would:

1. Counter-strike is a game where people payed for, usually connected through a Steam account which provides them with many other games. Counter-Strike servers are monitored for cheats and bots and therefor the chance of getting banned is much larger. Being banned will then punish you by disabling a part of what you've bought, thus presenting a valid reason why people should think twice about deploying cheats. Teeworlds is free, and no matter what you do, it won't punish you for anything. This is almost a wild-card to use whatever means available to abuse the system.

2. Counter-strike is a very successful game that has relative very few bots when compared to the entire playerbase. Teeworlds is only just in it's early phase. When the number of bots grows (or isn't halted) you won't be able to join a single server which hasn't any bots on it, thus giving a very problematic "bots : players ratio". New players are also a lot more important to Teeworlds then they're to Counter-strike. Counter-strike already has a solid playerbase who know the game inside out, but Teeworlds needs every new member it can interest to continue it's own existence. Even if it won't hold new players back, it's definitely not a good development.

5 Reply by Magnet

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

Stickified.

I would like to add something. Bot users are ruining what's good and fun in TW; they are low-level players who cannot improve because they rely on external help. They won't improve their aim using a bot.

Using a bot means you are a coward that would rather win at all costs than lose with dignity. I personally favor reporting bot users publicly not only to shame them but also allow players to ban them on sight. Yes, they can change nicknames, but do they want to?

If more players start using bots, most servers will become closed / invite-only and new players (and bot users) won't be able to join them -- hence ruining the game further. The bot users will end being the ones who are affected negatively most.

I agree with Magix -- hookbots are a real problem in vanilla CTF. If people continue using them, it will just make clans stop having clan wars because there is no point playing against cheaters.

6 Reply by ctan

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

Very good post, respect to you guys. I'd just like to add a little thing from my (hopefully) very little experience versus aimbots :

Lately I've been facing a bot in a sweet public ictf2 2on2. Well it was obvious that the guy was using an aimbot, coz of the mighty [bot] tag smile My teammate was starting shouting at him, but you know, this is little effect on aimbotters. It just encourage them to continue annoying you and other players. SO I told him to just play his best, defending while I was attacking - the aimbotter was only defending. And I discovered that it was possible to counter him, though it is very difficult. It is just a matter of timing, and I think kinda ping dependant. Just try to corner shoot him, using deiception as most as you can. Four times over five, you'll get killed, but the fifth try you'll kill him and take the flag. Then get out, being sure that you'll never let him have a straight line to shoot you.

Yeah, it's sooooo hard. I know. Harder when the guy knows how to move (this was the case) to chase you. But trust me, just shut up, and play the best you can. You'll get some flags and the guy will end up by finding the game annoying.

Why? Just because the purpose of an aimbot is mainly (imo) to annoy other players y playing unfair games. So just pretend it is fair, pretend that the guy is just as normal as you... The guy will find boring that you don't find get bored. Haha. Hard to say wink

By the way, cheers guy, and let the fair game be!

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7 Reply by Magnet

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

This might work in instagib (but it is not fun, and TW is about fun), and it might work against low-level players using aimbots. The other day on my (vanilla) server someone came, he had a bot ([bot] tag too); at first I thought it was a "joke". But the guy was obviously a noob, he couldn't move properly, but he would hook me like crazy. Anyway I owned him, thinking maybe he wasn't a bot; at some point I moved past him really fast and he managed to hook me successively so I killed him, then asked if he was indeed a bot. He replied with a mature "f*** you" at which point I banned him.

Now it wouldn't be a big deal by itself, but if some random noob has access to a bot, anyone can have it (I personally never tried so I don't know how hard it is to get one, I know I could code one if it was of any use but it's just a waste of time).

The big deal is that there are mid-level kiddies who want to win at all cost and use bots to do so, and it's hard to know whether they use bots or not because even with bots they're not really better than us; the difference is that they are cheating and we are not, but since we can't prove it we can't make much of it. That's why we record to make statistics on failed hooks/shots & so.

If you have a clanwar against some clan and one or two defenders use aimbots, it's a fun killer and they will never admit to using bots. The same goes with mid to high level public games. That's the real problem. In the end, it's all because of some griefers who can't play and only enjoy ruining others games or winning at all costs. Playing against them is not a solution.

8 Reply by ctan

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

Those hook bots seem almost most boring than inst aim bots... sad

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9 Reply by Tom94

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

A major problem of the bots is that smart botters cant get detected... They simply 'improve' their gameplay by making the bot automaticly shoot at a random success factor then your aim line intersects an enemy, so they basicly play like always, but sometimes the bot shoots for them which dramaticly increases the accuracy.
What i want to say: The botters we detect are some leechers of work who are easy to catch, but the real problem are the botters which cant be detected, are respected and play a lot.

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10 Reply by Magic Merlin

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

I ve been on some pretty popular instagib server when some guy came in who oubviously had an aimbot without tag.
It was pretty annoying and some ppl started shouting at him as they always do.

But then the botter started to spam some website where he said he had the Bot from and told all ppl to go there and get 1.

And that is it what rly sucks hmm

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11 Reply by Chi11y

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

I would also like to encourage server hosters who want to be respected to co-operate with banning these users. I wouldn't say public lists are good, but if you know other respectable server hosters, work together to ban the unfair players. Getting banned from one server is probably a no-care for most botters, but getting banned by the top-10 servers are worse. Also, shouting that people have aimbot all the time is useless and non-constructive, public players who bot will be banned when seen by an admin, the real damage is botting clans. For this, the only way is to talk with the other respected clans (it's all about keeping a level where you know the top clans and know that they won't cheat) about who you think bots etc. We've seen earlier that server crashers quite quickly got known by the top players, banned, and then the problem was well, still irritating, but not such a big deal. Co-operation and fair play is the best way. For the developers I think not much can be done as long as you wish to keep the source open. Ofcource propretairy anti-cheat systems could be inserted etc., but it's simply not a wanted solution.

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12 Reply by PaddyKay

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

long thread. first of all:

Magix wrote:

every time you use a bot, somebody will throw a puppy of a tall building, so stop using bots.

I'm going to make a photo-compain with that slogan. I luv the insane idea of it.

ok, now there are a few things I wanna reply to it.

Magix wrote:

If you see somebody with this tag, don't let them trick you by telling you that [bot] is their clan, cuz its not.

maybe it's just me or I really met the 2 worst bots of this kind in the world. big_smile
I'm playing a lot iCTF lately and most of the time on a server with the streetwars-map - which is one of the best maps in my opinion. on this server the people almost know me as a "friend".
almost everytime I'm on there are 2 guys on, both with [bot] in their name. for me, they are "the Bot-Clan". as I said I'm pretty often on this server and played against them a lot. I don't know if these "bots" (if u really think they are using them) are just kinda broken or if it's really just a clan: they play like me. not a single evidence of using a bot.

as I said. maybe they messed it up. OR I'm that good that a bot has no chance against me. but if so there are many player which are way better than me. and I doubt that they all using a bot and I'm the only good player in this game.

I once played against a real bot. I had not a chance against him. I left the game because I didn't want to play RIGHT NOW against a bot. I think, that bots wouldn't mess this game up. besides the fact that such a young game has already bots (it totaly impress me!) if we'd use bots the right way there is no need in "heaving fear of bots".

My idea would be a training mode or as for me we could call it MOD as well. you vs. a bot - 1on1. just to train. 3-5 levels. it's a way to let the new guys show how this game is working at all. and it would help people who want to be the best to train and become better.

NO. I'm not saying Bots are good. but I'm also not saying Bots are evil. it's like everything in the world. water e.p.: u have to drink it or u die. ur body needs water. but if u are in a room with water all over u will drown. it's about how we use them.

someone said it's all about fun and fighting against a bot wouldn't be fun. I tell u: it IS fun. like ctan described his experience with a bot: u maybe fail 4 times but u hit the 5th time. the longer u play and kill him the more fun is it. because people with bots normaly learn with their faults. after a while it's maybe 8 kills and 1 hit - but maybe 2kills and 1 hit. u can have fun while becomming better and better. a bot is the best way to become better.

I can't tell about the new guys in the future. maybe they like the way it is in that time or not. but it's a good way to discuss about bots. it's in our hands what happens to the new guys in the future. our decisions will have effects. we should decide wisely - but first we need to see all ways to react with this "problem".

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13 Reply by Azon

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

PaddyKay wrote:

as I said I'm pretty often on this server and played against them a lot. I don't know if these "bots" (if u really think they are using them) are just kinda broken or if it's really just a clan: they play like me. not a single evidence of using a bot.

Seen these guys as well, they actually do use the bots with the tag, but switch it on and off as they please. They aren't very good with the bot off but still have the tag. Whenever somebody beats them they turn the bot on.

PaddyKay wrote:

I think, that bots wouldn't mess this game up. besides the fact that such a young game has already bots (it totaly impress me!) if we'd use bots the right way there is no need in "heaving fear of bots".

My idea would be a training mode or as for me we could call it MOD as well. you vs. a bot - 1on1. just to train. 3-5 levels. it's a way to let the new guys show how this game is working at all. and it would help people who want to be the best to train and become better.

Although the mod you're describing (which can't be called MOD though) sounds pretty fun, this is not related to the problem that we're describing. When such mod would exist people would be able to choose to play against bots. The problem of Teeworlds is that the bots pop up in servers where people come to play against fair, human opponents.

It's uncertain if it would be a good way to make people better though. Either they would be superhuman, similar to the aimbots we're discussing, and therefor no good training to anyone. Or they would be to easy, and teach people nothing when compared to real human players. Most people will therefor agree that the best way for people to improve their skill is to play against human opponents, improve by experiences and learn from your mistakes.

PaddyKay wrote:

someone said it's all about fun and fighting against a bot wouldn't be fun. I tell u: it IS fun. like ctan described his experience with a bot: u maybe fail 4 times but u hit the 5th time. the longer u play and kill him the more fun is it.

It probably could be fun in a specific game that focuses on this, but not in the current setting where the bot has a very unfair advantage in games were people expect a fair game. Also please note that when something is fun for you it doesn't have to be fun for everyone.

14 Reply by Magix

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

It is fun when the game is focused on it, not fun when you are expecting a fair game against humans. I sometimes run a server with bots set into it for people who enjoy that type of thing. You should play on that if you like stuff like that.

An update about those [bot] guys. It is actually a bug in qwerty's bot. When the bot is enabled in console, it adds the tag, but when it is disabled, the tag is not removed, so what you probably saw was the users without the bot enabled.

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15 Reply by Asiancat

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

The most hilarious and ironic thing about this topic is that Magix has made a bot himself.

xD

16 Reply by Magix

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

Indeed I have made a bot. However, it isn't listed on this because I know that I will never, ever release the source or binaries, while the bots listed here have been released.

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17 Reply by Random Tee

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

I thinks I've seen bots on some servers, but it's not too bad, so far.

Could you give some more information about the 'symptoms' of a bot, any particular characteristics. I think that one may be that they move their weapon far quicker than a person with a mouse could, but this isn't always true.

I'm also worried that if everyone is on the lookout for botters to ban, they might mistakenly ban players that are really good as well, so it might be a good idea to be a bit careful about who you ban.

Thanks for the information!

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18 Reply by DinoSmoothie

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

Aimbots aren't that fast, you'll know its them if you see them hooking  in the same way they aim all the time and losing control of the way they move.

Bye.

19 Reply by Magix

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

Now updated with a few demos and some screenshots. I hope this helps.

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20 Reply by Magic Merlin

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

Its rly sad... this bots are spreading very fast...

I mostly play instagib servers or servers with work like instagib (freeze for example) and almost every day i meet 1-3 bots there...
And the worst thing is that sometimes even their team disagrees to kick them because they are so "good"...

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21 Reply by Jean-Seb

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

I'm Qwerty.

First, I didn't have any evil plan about scrapping the game.
This was just a first approach of the C programming language.

It is why I add and I'll always add the [bot] tag.
The without-tag version was a big mistake and
it has occurred some hackable issues in following versions.

So yes, I'll continue to develop it like others teeworlds related projects.
But, I'll do all I can do against unwanted use of the bot.



I don't know if it's in this topic but I've read many things about blocking bot solutions.

closed sources game :
What is great with an open source game, it's it can be run on any OS.
Just have to compile it !
Releasing a binary for every OS is just too much works.
Anyway, you don't know every OS...
It's a cause why open sources games are loved.

checksum :
I think, it's already in use.
But, it's a protocol solution that is easily bypassed.

ip :
As I know, it the best solution.
But as a web developer, that is not a great solution...
- Dynamic IP
- Sub-networking
- public wireless
It's why I think IP blocking should be limited in time.


Best solution is fair developers who respect basic rule like the tag.
And also fair players.

Bots are part of the diversity of the game as mods are.
I tried to apologize me for what my bot have done.
If I've failed you can throw rocks to me.. wink


PS: sorry for my English..

22 Reply by Azon

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

Although you are free to develop a bot for your personal usage and to test it on your private server the Teeworlds team strongly discourages you to share these kind of creations with anyone. Once you share it with someone else you lose control on who gives it to whom and a single not-so-good friend can quickly spread it to many people, including those that don't take sufficient care when using your application. Tags alone won't protect against this so this countermeasure alone is no good guarantee.

The future of Teeworlds should try to create a playing environment where people will only encounter non-human player behavior in specific servers which clearly indicate that they use computer controlled bots. Outside these specific servers bots are an evil which ruins the game experience for many players, new and experienced ones alike. Teeworlds is all about humans playing against humans, comparing their skills for an experience which is both fun and competitive. Bots can put a serious dent to this ideal if they continue to spread among the select few who take a liking to such wicked applications. Especially you as a developer should see what damage they can do when shared freely among the community and shouldn't want to connect your name to such negative and controversial applications. Instead try to come with positive creations which are embraced by the whole community instead of a few unskilled botters.

23 Reply by Tom94 (edited by Tom94 2009-09-21 09:58:40)

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

Here some easy way to prevent the [bot] bot...
(Already implemented in lvl|x and working perfectly.)

// ZOMG A BOT! :O
if(!strncmp(msg->name, "[bot]", 5))
{
    // Buf
    char buf[256];

    // Notify the world!
    str_format(buf, sizeof(buf), "%s got banned due to cheating. (Reason: [bot])", new_name);
    game.send_chat_target(-1, buf);

    // BAN! :D
    str_format(buf, sizeof(buf), "ban %d 0", client_id);
    console_execute_line(-1, buf);

    return;
}

Put it into hooks.cpp where the namechange is proceeded.
(Mod)Developers should know what to do... smile

Maybe add some banfiles to the server which are automaticly updated within here (+ the reason).
Also a pretty well working system in lvl|x which prevents cheaters to come back.
I rarely see them currently. wink

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24 Reply by Slayer *gV*

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

this is a good idea tom i got while reading the first post too^^
but whats about players with the name [bot] to be "cool"? (coz maybe the think that?)

i think their is anywhere a more effective way. i dont know how this way could be, but maybe just a blacklist for all serveradmins, or just a list in teeworlds.com with all botters, so that serveradmins can compare there thought "he is botter?!" with the list and if he was noticed before he can be sure to ban him for life or something like that.

however, i hope its ok for you tom that i put this code-part into my mods^^


and what i want to say: i havent seen any bot in teeworlds, only when i play instagib, but this is rarely^^. maybe i saw a bot but im only too good so i where better as the bot, because the current bots are bad i think. but so its harder to ban bots, because if they arent as good as pro-players you will think that pro-players are botters....hummm i know this problem <.<

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25 Reply by Bee

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Re: [INFO] All about Bots

It's not a foll prof way, but it's the easy way for now... But anyway, they should know after a while that having "[bot]" will get you a ban. So I don't see it as a big deal.

Give others the respect you wish to be respected with. In the mean time, enjoy the website!