Hi, development of sofware with good features is very difficult work, and contributing to an existing code base is even more difficult. If its still not clear to you, go and try to add features...

Nope, new features are not welcome in the official teeworlds repository... today only are accepted small patches and important security fixes....

If you like contribute with new ideas:
1. Join to teeworlds IRC channel
2. Talk and make a good staff friend (best friend is Oy)
3. With the new staff friend you can upload any new feature to official repository.

[...] It is like finishing life, once you've done it, you are dead. But even then the world keeps turning, and your (way of) life becomes old fashioned. [...]

Wise words you speak here...wise words...

I think we should move away. I think no one if use plays vanilla cause it's such a great game. You play vanilla cause it's "eh.... Vanilla". And you play vanilla because although we have all these caveats there are a few really nice things in the game mechanics that you learn and that challenge you when playing.

Is teeworlds dead? I don't think so. I'm counting 1000 servers and sooo many players. Yes, I'm also talking about ddnet, because ddnet is some kind of co-op, but still teeworlds  (thanks for pointing that out). Besides, I know a projects that are a lot more dead (haha) and still work kind of for years (one example would be Ace of spades classic. Someone made openspades a few year ago and it's still living).

Besides, I think steam was the wrong way, or let's say steam isn't compatible with Oy .  We got a considerable large impact (?) on the Player base, but almost none in here right? (partly wild guesses, excuse me if I'm wrong). So this "community wants" isn't just about us, it's also about the new "generation" that uses steam. Teeworlds was already old fashioned when I joined (way before I found out there was a forum ) but I remember the people were a bit old-fashioned too and it was funny playing an old-fashioned game with old-fashioned people. Has some kind of retro style. Well, nowadays it's playing with average 12 year old, definitely not old-fashioned people an even older-fashioned game. That's not funny anymore.

I would also be open for helping with the development, but I have rarely experience with c++ (minor problem) but teeworlds source is way too complex to be understood by me (or even part; major problem). So if anybody got the patience to help and guide my, I could probably be some help

But back to the topic: Heinrich is a good decision, I think. But let's fork and move on. Pull requests back to original teeworlds isn't a good idea I think, Oy could always pull our source if needed.

I think the game may be finished, but it's becoming more and more outdated and the whole code base as well.

You will never really "finish" a game. It is like finishing life, once you've done it, you are dead. But even then the world keeps turning, and your (way of) life becomes old fashioned.
Maybe Teeworlds was somewhat finished 8 years ago. But now it isn't at all.

necropotame wrote:

I think this solution is smooth and we can test like this what we can do in practice. No big announce, no hard fork, no anger, just a semi-official test of an extended version of TeeWorlds.

I kinda disagree on this. What's the point on trying to keep compatibility with teeworlds if you are not happy with the current development? It will just limit yourself on the possibilities as Oy mentionted that the core game is more or less complete beside some polishing.

I'm not saying that we must keep compatibility or not. I'm saying here that the community should stay here and try to made something better alongside vanilla. Like, there is two TeeWorlds: one made by Oy, and one by the community. I think that it's normal that some fork can get visibility in the official forum/website/download page. Since Heinrich is in charge of the forum, it's technically possible. And it's just a way to promote alternative versions without dropping the vanilla game.

I think it should be just a test first, because we don't know yet where to go, who is involved and how much we can work on it.

NB: When I say "we", I don't really talk about me as a part of the team. I've no time to work on a third project. I can however sometime create PR.

But teeworlds base finished? I have lags playing this game...

We have an outdated netcode because Teeworlds isn't a network engine..
We have an outdated mod support because Teeworlds isn't a game engine...
We have an outdated map editor because Teeworlds isn't a map editor...
And continue... but we have cool graphics thx to artist!!

The main problem here is that each player want something different. We can only agreed about making a slightly improved TeeWorlds. Not something really different, just a little better.

That's probably one of the main issues concerning this dicussion. People want a 'better' version, new features, etc. But I'm not really sure this will work out as there might be different expectations what 'better' means: allowing more modifications?, account system?, matchmaking?, new mods?, moving platforms?, ...

I kinda disagree on this. What's the point on trying to keep compatibility with teeworlds if you are not happy with the current development? It will just limit yourself on the possibilities as Oy mentionted that the core game is more or less complete beside some polishing.

Anyways, good luck if youcreate a new fork, looking forward to see the results!

m!nus wrote:

What do you say about Heinrich joining you as a core maintainer and moving forward?

That's not going to work as we're not on the same page.

What's the matter ? Is this about KISS, tee-ishness, workflow, personal... ?

I think most of use agree that heinrich5991 fit perfectly the job of "Maintainer/main dev", so I recommend that you create both subforum and github fork and decide of the team. I think this solution is smooth and we can test like this what we can do in practice. No big announce, no hard fork, no anger, just a semi-official test of an extended version of TeeWorlds.

DDNet is different... but is Teeworlds... all the base is teeworlds... if i improve some parts of this base why i can't try to do a PR in teeworlds?

. Teeworlds doesn't aim to be a game engine (it's been said multiple times), it is a game in itself.
. Teeworlds and DDRace are two different kinds of game. Maybe DDRace has swept the playerbase because the majority of players are looking for that kind of co-op (and sometimes even singleplayer) experience. And there is nothing wrong with that. But the main game is a 2d shooter and that doesn't change... Whoever came here for a 2d shooter will get exactly that.

Despite that, it'd be nice if whatever comes out of this can revive the development a bit

On the other had, a fork would mean splitting up the player base, drastically changes (for the game and the players) and a lot of work. Without any "ROI" noone would be willing to throw that much lifetime into it.

Actually i would love to just drop everything here and start a new. Keeping the code base, getting a new github, get a new forum, giving this stinky, dead fish a new head, making some great plans and getting shit done. But I am not the one to do it (but i would like to be a part of it). I am really sorry to see it ending this way. Maybe we should do a poll and decide, as a community.

It has been a long time since you spend no more than 1 minute to check code that is not yours or your friends

THe big conclusion is that you never waste your time... but all other people yes.. waiting you.