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	<title type="html"><![CDATA[Teeworlds Forum - New license]]></title>
	<link rel="self" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/extern.php?action=feed&amp;tid=957&amp;type=atom"/>
	<updated>2008-04-19T07:47:02Z</updated>
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	<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=957</id>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10549#p10549"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>*closed*</p><p>There is no need to discuss this futher.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[matricks]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=2</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-19T07:47:02Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10549#p10549</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10478#p10478"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>We do not claim to be &quot;Free Software&quot; by FSF:s terms. We do qualify as Open Source Software by OSI:s standards though,</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[void]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=5</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-18T09:41:27Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10478#p10478</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10467#p10467"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>FireArrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>From what I have seen, there have been no complains on or from any distribution maintainer so far.</p></blockquote></div><p>Perhaps you missed my complain and the one of <a href="http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/sm-commit/2008-April/016317.html">ruskie</a>.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[astsmtl]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=622</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-18T04:42:51Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10467#p10467</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10250#p10250"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>@Miry: I don&#039;t know if you are aware, but there have been quite a lot of nagging on the dev-team about the license. It started of back in the 0.3.x days, when the license was a bit more strict, and not to be considered &quot;free&quot;. When they then changed the license to 0.4.x, some nagging just kept going on...</p><p>I can see this from your point of view, but I think most of the hostility from the developers are aimed at a selected few, who simply don&#039;t understand the current license and just keep on complaining (hint: read post #13 and down).</p><p>From what I have seen, there have been no complains on or from any distribution maintainer so far.</p><p>Note that I don&#039;t belong to the dev-team and that this is just my personal view on the topic. Please don&#039;t correct me unless you have more solid knowledge than I do in this topic.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[FireArrow]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=65</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-14T17:29:57Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10250#p10250</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10241#p10241"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I personally don&#039;t see why a disagreement about this is taken as personally by the developers as to get so angry.&nbsp; It&#039;s not the first time I see this happening, this seems to be quite common especially among some game developers, and it also makes us working in the packaging and distribution of Free Software among the different distributions tired. At least me. I sometimes just don&#039;t start packaging a game simply for not asking the developers for clarification of the licenses, or I don&#039;t share my point of view with them -which might be right or wrong, but having different points of view involved is always a good thing- because I don&#039;t feel like fighting (I&#039;m not talking about this game in concrete, I&#039;m not the maintainer of this game, I&#039;m just talking in general). I don&#039;t see why some developers are so aggressive towards different point of views coming from maintainers, as if we were the enemies or if they considered we wanted to attack them or their games or something like that. Perhaps you&#039;re angry about other people having different points of view about the license, but it makes me sad feeling that some developers seem to consider us distribution maintainers more as the enemy than being in the same team, and that sharing our point of view with them -some of us have quite a lot of experience with different licenses- is totally unwelcome. Sorry if I&#039;m being so aggressive in this reply, I&#039;m just tired of this situations. Oh, as a matter of fact, Debian considers that license free, so don&#039;t worry about it.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Miry]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=1336</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-14T16:24:06Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10241#p10241</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10104#p10104"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>The license looks fine to me, completely free.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Rivers]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=700</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-12T22:55:27Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10104#p10104</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10054#p10054"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>If you don&#039;t like the license, don&#039;t play the game.</p><p>kkthxbye.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Chi11y]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=338</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-12T09:45:06Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10054#p10054</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10034#p10034"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Soeb wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I just pointed that he is talking about distribution. However matricks will say what he meant.</p><p>And again read that line: &quot;You are paying for the distribution and not the game itself.&quot;<br />I don&#039;t see sense if he talked about distributing in this line. </p><p>Hint: It reads &quot;the distribution&quot;, not &quot;distribution&quot;. Read again.</p></blockquote></div><p>He was refering to the FSF Free Software Definitions. In that context the sentence has an ellipses: &quot;Paying for distribution is okey, you are paying for the distribution (of the game) and not the game itself.&quot;</p><p>But you&#039;re totally right, matricks can point things out. Maybe he really talked about Linux distributions and just missed an &#039;a&#039;...</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Scott]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=1095</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-11T21:48:34Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10034#p10034</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10031#p10031"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I just pointed that he is talking about distribution. However matricks will say what he meant.</p><p>And again read that line: &quot;You are paying for the distribution and not the game itself.&quot;<br />I don&#039;t see sense if he talked about distributing in this line. </p><p>Hint: It reads &quot;the distribution&quot;, not &quot;distribution&quot;. Read again.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Soeb]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=673</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-11T21:03:31Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10031#p10031</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10030#p10030"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Soeb wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>No, they refer to GNU/Linux disrtibutions.</p></blockquote></div><p>The idea behind free software is a lot older than GNU/Linux distributions. Have you read the essay I just posted?<br />The FSF talks about <em>distributing free software for a fee</em> that can also be called <em>selling</em>. </p><p>Keep in mind why the FSF guys refer to &quot;distribution&quot; and not &quot;selling&quot;:<br /><em>The term &quot;sell software&quot; is ambiguous. Strictly speaking, exchanging a copy of a free program for a sum of money is &quot;selling&quot;; but people usually associate the term &quot;sell&quot; with proprietary restrictions on the subsequent use of the software. You can be more precise, and prevent confusion, by saying either &quot;distributing copies of a program for a fee&quot; or &quot;imposing proprietary restrictions on the use of a program,&quot; depending on what you mean.</em></p><div class="quotebox"><cite>matricks wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Paying for distribution is okey, you are paying for the distribution and not the game itself.</p></blockquote></div><p>Ì think perfectly understood the line - maybe you should check wether you have understood it by explaining it - there&#039;s no better way to find out wether one has understood something than by explaining it to others.<br />Maybe I really got something wrong...</p><p>Hint: It reads &quot;distribution&quot;, not &quot;a distribution&quot;.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Scott]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=1095</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-11T20:58:59Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10030#p10030</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10027#p10027"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>No, they refer to GNU/Linux disrtibutions.</p><div class="quotebox"><cite>matricks wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Paying for distribution is okey, you are paying for the distribution and not the game itself.</p></blockquote></div><p>If you don&#039;t understand that line read it again and again and again till you&#039;ll understand it.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Soeb]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=673</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-11T20:33:16Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10027#p10027</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10025#p10025"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>FireArrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>@Scott, when they say &quot;distribution&quot; they refer to it as a GNU/Linux distribution, like Red Hat or Debian.</p></blockquote></div><p>No, they refer to the common form of distribution, that can also be a simple CD-R with just the software on it.</p><p>The Free Software Foundation has even an own article on <a href="http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/selling.html">selling free software</a> that espacially matricks should read (due to his statement that I have not read the FSF definition correctly).</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Scott]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=1095</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-11T20:23:37Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10025#p10025</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10023#p10023"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>@Scott, when they say &quot;distribution&quot; they refer to it as a GNU/Linux distribution, like Red Hat or Debian.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[FireArrow]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=65</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-11T19:55:13Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10023#p10023</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10022#p10022"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>A nice addition to the license would be a clause that says something like this<br />&quot;Anyone complaining on the license is explicitly forbidden to use/modify/distribute it.&quot;</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[cjg]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=1312</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-11T19:51:46Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10022#p10022</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: New license]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10009#p10009"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>matricks wrote:</cite><blockquote><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p>A program is free software if users have all of these freedoms. Thus, you should be free to redistribute copies, either with or without modifications, either gratis or <strong>charging a fee for distribution</strong>, to anyone anywhere.</p></blockquote></div><p>Okey, again you not reading the license correctly. Paying for distribution is okey, you are paying for the distribution and not the game itself.</p></blockquote></div><p>That&#039;s just knitpicking. Demanding payment for distribution is not far from selling. Actually very very close to it. I could charge $10 for Emacs or $10 for the distribution of Emacs. Absolutely no big deal and the FSF guys know that their products can be &quot;sold&quot; <img src="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/img/smilies/wink.png" width="15" height="15" alt="wink" /></p><div class="quotebox"><cite>matricks wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EDIT: the distribution thing could be clarified, but if you intend to do something like that, you could just ask us.</p></blockquote></div><p>I do not intend to sell your game. And if I would want to sell it, I would not need to ask you because your license allows the selling of your game (packaged with another game, for example) <img src="http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/img/smilies/wink.png" width="15" height="15" alt="wink" /></p><p>I just like free software. Yours isn&#039;t, but very close to it. It&#039;s sad, but that&#039;s the way things go...</p><p>Only to clarify two things:<br />1. There would be no fuss if you would have chosen original zlib/libpng.<br />2. Your addition does not prevent anyone from selling your game, it only generates negative fuss that nobody wants.<br />3. If Point 4 is really just for pointing out that no one should sell the game except for you, a &quot;please don&#039;t sell our game&quot; on the homepage would have the same effect.<br />4. No one will sell your game, anyways because it&#039;s available for free. If someone tries to, he will have only little or no profits and stop the endeavour in no time.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Scott]]></name>
				<uri>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/profile.php?id=1095</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2008-04-11T18:55:40Z</updated>
			<id>http://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=10009#p10009</id>
		</entry>
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